Minutes of the Members Meeting of

The Carroll Cave Conservancy

held 10:00 a.m. Saturday July 26th, 2014 at the

Mid-County Fire Protection District Fire Station

Camdenton, Missouri.

Present at meeting: Bill Gee, President, Joe Sikorski, Vice President, Jim Cooley, Secretary, and Jeff Page, Treasurer. Members: Krista Bartel, Spike Crews, Jarrett Ellis, Jamie Euliss, DJ Hall, Jim Helwig, Chad Hines, Craig Hines, Rick Hines, Andy Isbell, Bob Lerch, Kirsten Alvey-Mudd, Jim Mudd, Jack Peters,  Kerry Rowland, Joe Sikorski, Terry Sherman, Nathan Taylor, and Rita Worden.

Bill Gee called the meeting to order 10:08.  Gee presented the agenda on the overhead, and stated that there were two main items to address at this meeting: Updating the by-laws, and officer elections.  These items would come at the end of the meeting, after committee reports.

Minutes of the last meeting were approved as posted on the website.  Thanks to Jeff Page for stepping up and taking the minutes at the last meeting, when the secretary had vehicle trouble en route and could not make it.

Committee Reports

Survey Report:  Bob Lerch reported that that there were four survey trips in 2013, one so far in 2014, and a Labor Day trip is planned out to Confusion Creek, which will be a long, grueling day trip.  It will take about 6.5 hours of caving to reach the end of the survey.  A total of 2,039 feet were added to the survey in 2013, leaving a total of 20.01 miles of passage survey, not counting splay shots.  Most of the remaining survey now is in not-so-nice areas, mostly small, muddy leads.  In response to a question, Lerch said that all of upper Thunder River, first done with a theodolite, has now been resurveyed.  Rick Hines asked what were the plans for maps to have by the NSS convention.  Lerch responded that all of the passage from the shaft to the Mountain Room should be done, and the Lake Room.  All of this is in Xara.  A discussion of the surface survey ensued.  Action Item for the Board: Discuss borrowing a Trimble (sp?) unit from Spike Crews, allowing a sub-meter surface survey, and use the radio-located surface locations to true the map up.  Lerch asked for money for supplies – several instruments are broken and need repair, plus paper and such needs to be bought – and said he would submit receipts to the Board.  Gee said he thought we’d approve such expenses years ago.  Rick Hines then showed some maps of Camden County, which can be obtained on line from the County GIS system, and showed where the cave underlay several landowners’ properties.

Dye Tracing/Recharge Report:  Bob Lerch reported, “Nothing new!”  Lerch said that Ben Miller has completed his masters’ thesis on the area hydrology, and that there was a link to it on the website. Also, a peer-reviewed manuscript summarizing Ben’s work was submitted to Hydrogeology Journal in June, 2014.

Treasurer’s Report: Jeff Page reported a bank balance on June 6/30/14 $7003.32, and no other assets.  CCC’s only routine expense is the electric bill.  He has filed our annual report.  There is no budget, there are no problems, and we are not spending any money. 

Access Report: Jeff Page reported that there were 11 trips in 2012, 13 in 2013, and 5 so far this year.  There will be a spike in trips next year due to the NSS convention.  There is the need for certain projects to get a shot in the arm, specifically rescue training for the Camdenton Fire Department.  Landowner trips were described as “stagnant,” with the same people coming year-to-year.*  Human impacts to the cave are currently not of great concern.  Page reported we will need a new Access Chair, as he is stepping down from this role.  Action Item for Board:  Appoint new Access Chair. *Rick Hines commented on the access report: “We have had some repeat participants but most are new.  The problem has been low numbers the last few years.  If we ever had more people interested than we could handle we would take new visitors before repeat customers.”

Membership Report:  Jeff Page reported that we have 74 members, with 23 present and six proxies, so we have a membership quorum (25%) for the by-laws vote.  This is up from 44 members at this time last year.  More people are joining and renewing on-line, but there have been some failures with that system, which Page will address with Marty Griffin, website manager.  Action Item for Access Chair: We need a Liability Waiver for the NSS Convention.

Safety & Rescue Report:  Terry DeFraities was not present.  Bill Gee stated that the rescue cache at Jerry’s Cairn was flooded, the waterproof seals failed, and the cache is essentially ruined, requiring replacement.  The rescue cache in the Round Room was checked early this year and is fine.  Gee stated these need to be maintained.  Kirsten Alvey-Mudd stated that the NSS will require us to submit a safety and rescue plan for Carroll Cave visits.  Rick Hines suggested an action item for the Board: We need a new Safety & Rescue Chair, as DeFraities is too busy to attend to this project.

Biology Report:  Bill Gee reported that there is no evidence of WNS in Carroll Cave, but that Camden County is a WNS positive county now.  On January 15th, 2014, Dr. David Ashley of Western Missouri State University checked the several hundred bat carcasses at guano pile 15, but did not think they represented WNS fatalities.  No samples were collected.  Gee discussed several trips, stating that during bat census, not a whole lot of clustered bats were noted.  There were several hundred individuals at the 500 foot marker.  Gee reviewed the WNS policy.  Bob Lerch suggested we get data from Dr. David Ashley.  Action item for Biology Chair:  Obtain and organize time-sequenced data from Dr. Ashley.

Stream Flow Report:  Bill Gee reported that the data is posted on the website.  There was a 20-foot spike in August, 2013, and higher levels noted in April of this year.  A discussion ensued of flooding events in Carroll Cave.

Bill Gee called for a comfort break, and Rick Hines took a group photo for the record.

After break, DJ Hall gave the Restoration Report, reviewing the trips he’s led.  There was a discussion of reflective trail markers.  Removing them was left up to the discretion of the Restoration Chair.

Webpage Report:  Marty Griffin was not present.  The web page has not changed.  Some complaints were voice about how the list serve works.  We are on Yahoo, and you must add yourself.

Schoolhouse Restoration Report:  Terry DeFraities was not present.  A short discussion ended with the conclusion that, without a champion, this was a moribund project.

Lease Report:  Rick Hines reported that he called Greg Fry to get Chris Danuser’s  phone number, who owns the shaft (which we lease), but didn’t get through.  The lease is for 20 years and renews every five years; we are approaching our last renewal in a year.  Rick could not find Danuser’s number.  Efforts to contact the Pembertons, owners of the natural entrance, have proven unsuccessful.  A long discussion ensued of how to continue to have access to the cave, possibly through a land trust.  Craig Hines, an attorney, explained some of the intricacies of land trusts. 

MSS Report: Krista Bartel reported we are current on dues.

501c3 Reinstatement Report:  Rick Hines reported that our reinstatement was filed December 31, 2013, and is still pending.  This was checked on just a few days ago.  Craig Hines pointed out that we would have to change some Constitution and By-Laws to become a valid land trust.  Craig has checked by phone within the last week, and was told that the 501c3 should be reinstated “at any time.”

Silo Report:  Bill Gee reported that some new LED lighting had been installed.  There are a couple of problems in the basement he intends to address today.  The rope light in the ladder has died, and Gee expressed his opinion it wasn’t necessary.  Rick Hines said a new rope light would cost about $150.

This concluded the committee reports.  Bill Gee said that he had two motions for the Board to vote on.  One was to permit Greg Stoner, an MDC fisheries biologist, access to the cave with a membership.  The second was to appoint Bob Lerch to coordinate cave trips for the NSS convention.  After discussion, both motions carried unanimously.  The By-Laws changes were presented to the membership for a full membership vote.  They passed with only Kerry Rowland opposed.

The election results were reported.  New officers:  Bob Lerch, President; Jarret Ellis, Vice-President; Heidi Fletcher, Secretary; and Jeff Page, Treasurer.  Meeting adjourned 1:12 p.m.

Submitted by Jim Cooley, outgoing CCC Secretary,

August 11th, 2014.

Recap of Action Items

for Board & Chairs

  1. Discuss borrowing a Trimble (sp?) unit from Spike Crews, allowing a sub-meter surface survey, and use the radio-located surface locations to true the map up. 
  2. Appoint new Access Chair.
  3. Action Item for Access Chair: Liability Waiver for the NSS Convention.
  4. Appoint a new Safety & Rescue Chair.
  5. Develop and submit a safety and rescue plan to NSS for Carroll Cave visits (required for convention). 
  6. Action item for Biology Chair:  Obtain and organize time-sequenced data from Dr. Ashley.




From: CCCnews@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CCCnews@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ‘Lerch, Robert’ lerchr@missouri.edu [CCCnews]
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 6:56 PM
To: CCCnews@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CCCnews] email list New Officers and Directors

At the 2014 members meeting, we elected 4 new officers and appointed 5 new Directors.

The officers are:

President – Bob Lerch

Vice Presi dent – Jarrett Ellis

Treasurer – Jeff Page

Secretary – Heidi Fletcher


Krista Bartel, DJ Hall, Rick Hines, Kerry Rowland, Joe Sikorski

The Board met briefly after the members meeting and agreed to the following:

1) While we want to be generous in featuring the cave for the 2015 NSS Convention, there will be a limit (yet to be agreed upon) to the total number of visitors.

2) DJ Hall has volunteered to be the new Safety Committee chair.

3) Trip leader training will be held this fall. Proposed dates will be sent out soon.

4)  Kerry Rowland is hosting a pre-convention camp on his property.

5) Krista Bartel volunteered to lead the effort to prepare a CCC display for the 2015 Convention; she needs pictures and other Carroll related stuff. Also, a tri-fold display.

6) 2015 Convention trip leaders (see list below) should begin to think about trips they wish to lead. We will likely be doing 1-3 longer trips and several short trips per day. Project trips are encouraged and resto and survey trips will be offered.

7) The NSS can provide decon stuff. Logistically, people coming out of Carroll will be muddy and need water, then decon chemicals. So, I don’t know if it is helpful or not to have a station at the silo unless we can get water there. Thoughts?

8) NSS can also provide a shuttle from the convention camp site to the cave and this may be worth doing.

I know that Kerry and Krista aren’t on the yahoo group, so if someone has there e-mail addresses, please forward.

Trip Leaders (volunteered to date)

Dan Austin

Krista Bartel

Spike Crews

Jarrett Ellis

Bill Gee

DJ Hall

Rick Hines

Dan Lamping

Bob Lerch

Ben Miller

Kerry Rowland (Pre-con)

Terry Simpson

Shawn Williams

Rita Worden


We could use a couple more trip leaders still.



Bob Lerch